Wikipedia:Policy on awrah images in Acehnese Wikipedia

Since there is no competent fatwa on boycotting Wikipedia until now, we have considered to reactivate this wikipedia under this condition:

We do not display images that violate Islamic law that is awrah. What we consider awrah is based on Shafi'i mazhab, that is all parts of body except face and palm (women) and between navel and knee (man).

Please vote below (voting only for Acehnese Wikipedia user that understand Acehnese)

Sipakat (Agree)

Akô. -- Si Gam 2 Buleuën Siblah 2011 18.51 (UTC)
Akô. -- Fadli Idris 3 Buleuën Siblah 2011 04.54 (UTC)
Akô. -- Jiyuukaminari 5 Buleuën Siblah 2011 04.14 (UTC)
Akô. Wikis should have their own rulings made by their own community. Nothing else to say. --Juhko (talk | contribs) 24 Buleuën Sa 2012 19.20 (UTC)

Akô. -- Hack87 4 Buleuën Peut 2013 02.21 (UTC)
The vote above was given after the policy has been closed, thus, doesn't hold any value. Bennylin (marit) 25 Buleuen Sikureueng 2021 14.38 (WIB)[balah]

Hana Sipakat (Oppose)

Hana Akô. -- The local community is not only composed by Acehnese readers, so there is no reason to limit the vote to these persons. And I don't consider that an account with 4 articles editions (only consisting in removing images) can speak as "We". You should read the five pillars, which are the basis of everything in Wikipedia. This includes "Wikipedia is written from a neutral point of view". So there is no reason to censor it because of a particular point of view. Furthermore there will soon be a functionality to allow anyone to hide some images. Just wait it and use it according to your convictions. If you don't want to contribute to the Wikipedia project just go elsewhere, but don't try to impose your point of view here. --Hercule 3 Buleuën Siblah 2011 08.53 (UTC)

What is the definition of local community? What criteria in English Wikipedia so a user can vote in a voting? Yes, user Si Gam only has 4 contributions. If you want to see voice from user with more than 1000 contributions, just reactivate user Si Gam Acèh. That's my real account. In this context, we do not impose our point of view. But we just ask a question, may we do that? That's all. We just do not want to display portrait with sexy clothing, like showing breast, armpit, belly, navel and thigh. That's not our culture.. -- Si Gam 3 Buleuën Duwa Blah 2011 16.42 (UTC)

On the Meta page, Seb said that you can say "We do not want images that are considered nudity in our local culture" and have that as a rule :) - Personally I would word the formal policy as "We do not want images of what Acehnese culture considers to be nudity/lack of dress" WhisperToMe 3 Buleuën Duwa Blah 2011 17.39 (UTC)

Yes, I mean like that. -- Si Gam 5 Buleuën Duwa Blah 2011 19.18 (UTC)

Alright - according to SEB the WMF is in favor of allowing Acehnese Wikipedia to implement the rule "Please do not post images that are considered nudity in Acehnese culture." Bennylin is watching this page, so he may comment too. WhisperToMe 5 Buleuën Duwa Blah 2011 22.17 (UTC)

Saya hanya memikirkan dampak dari kebijakan ini (entah sudah dipertimbangkan atau belum). Jika kebijakan ini jadi, maka tidak akan ada gambar/foto sebagian besar wanita terkenal di dunia (artinya sebagian besar dari separo penduduk dunia), termasuk banyak tokoh-tokoh wanita terkenal di Indonesia, seperti presiden Megawati Sukarnoputri (satu-satunya gambar Megawati dengan kerudung adalah ketika salat, tidak ada gambar resmi Megawati dengan kerudung). Kebijakan ini juga berarti tidak ada ilustrasi sama sekali tentang mayoritas olahraga air, misalnya. WhisperToMe mengusulkan bahwa gambar-gambar perempuan yang tidak memenuhi syarat di atas dapat dimodifikasi/dipotong dan diunggah secara lokal untuk memenuhi syarat di atas. Apakah itu yang diinginkan oleh komunitas Wikipedia Aceh? Atau ada rencana yang lain?

(I'm only thinking about the impact of this policy. It means there will be no picture of most of the women in the world (that means most of the half of the world population), even many prominent Indonesian women, such as President Megawati Soekarnoputri (the only picture of her with veil is when she was praying, and there was no official photo of her that could be shown under this policy). It means there is no illustration of anything related to most water-based sports, to name other example. WhisperToMe suggested that some images could be modified (cropped) and uploaded locally to met the criteria. Is that what the community wanted? Or do you have something else in mind?) Bennylin 6 Buleuën Duwa Blah 2011 15.16 (UTC)

If there are no objections to the cropping idea, this weekend I would like to upload cropped images of women to articles on the Acehnese Wikipedia about women who have not been pictured with their heads covered. WhisperToMe 7 Buleuën Duwa Blah 2011 18.39 (UTC)

Yes Benny, that's what we want. -- Si Gam 14 Buleuën Duwa Blah 2011 16.46 (UTC)

~~{{ oppose }} per Hercule~~. Bennylin 17 Buleuën Siblah 2011 05.46 (UTC)
Netral. Bennylin (bicara)
Comment: There are some ways in which one could have policies that align with some values within Sharia (i.e. some Wikipedias elect to not display certain religious pictures). But the policy of a Wikipedia edition cannot uniformly match a set of religious laws. No matter what language is involved, a contributor from one religion has the same rights as a contributor from another religion. WhisperToMe 29 Buleuën Siblah 2011 05.43 (UTC)

Comments

(Please translate the above title into Acehnese) What aspects of "Sharia" would you find desirable to include as rules on the Acehnese Wikipedia? Then we can determine which aspects do not conflict with WMF goals, and which ones do. There are some things that the WMF wants every Wiki to do. And there are some things which the Aceh Wikipedia can do locally that does not conflict with WMF goals WhisperToMe 29 Buleuën Siblah 2011 05.45 (UTC)

What we want is only no nudity in this Wikipedia. -- Si Gam 5 Buleuën Duwa Blah 2011 19.30 (UTC)

Kalau begitu saya rasa halaman ini perlu dipindahkan/diganti judulnya, karena kebijakan yang diusulkan bukan tentang keseluruhan Hukum Syariah, melainkan hanya tentang gambar-gambar yang tidak menampakkan aurat saja. (Therefore this page should be moved/renamed accordingly because this page only dealing with awrah images, not the whole Sharia Law.) Bennylin 6 Buleuën Duwa Blah 2011 15.16 (UTC)

Update, I just noticed the above ideas. Hmm... in terms of "We do not display images that violate Islamic law that is awrah." and "What we consider awrah is based on Shafi'i mazhab, that is all parts of body except face and palm (women) and between navel and knee (man)." - In regards to whether this is in accordance with WMF principles, or how much it is, that's a good question. I'm not sure. It doesn't sound like it's technically against Meta policies. I wonder if something phrased like "Images which are considered to be nudity in Acehnese culture are not permitted" would work. I think I will ask Meta and see what they think. See meta:Meta:Babel#Meta_policy_and_local_Wikimedia_project_image_policy WhisperToMe 3 Buleuën Duwa Blah 2011 05.35 (UTC)

Why is this discussion in English? Should've just had it in Acehnese and nobody would've noticed. Shoot yourself in the foot, why don't you..? Seb az86556 3 Buleuën Duwa Blah 2011 07.16 (UTC)

As an FYI, in this case, according to the Meta page Seb says that it's okay if images considered nudity in Acehnese culture are excluded from the Acehnese Wikipedia. Remember that you have to reach a consensus agreeing that it's okay, but, yes, it is not against WMF rules to have a policy like "We do not want images of what Acehnese culture considers to be nudity/lack of dress"

WhisperToMe 3 Buleuën Duwa Blah 2011 17.39 (UTC)

So the decision is..? -- Si Gam 5 Buleuën Duwa Blah 2011 19.30 (UTC)

It means you are welcome to implement the rule "images considered nudity in Acehnese culture are excluded from the Acehnese Wikipedia" if you wish, and if the community wishes :) - Based on what Seb said, the Wikimedia Foundation is okay with that move.

If you want I can help write a guide in English on which images are acceptable under Acehnese culture, and offer suggestions on how to find such free use images

If you want me to double-double check, I could send an e-mail to a Wikimedia board trustee and see what he/she has to say. I could send a proposed version of the guideline.

WhisperToMe 5 Buleuën Duwa Blah 2011 22.15 (UTC)

OK. Thank you very much! Now we can contribute again in this Wikipedia. Welcome back Wikipedia.. :) -- Si Gam 6 Buleuën Duwa Blah 2011 12.17 (UTC)

Welcome back Wikipedia.. :) -- Jiyuukaminari 6 Buleuën Duwa Blah 2011 16.11 (UTC)

Amai gèt, good job :) Naval Scene 8 Buleuën Duwa Blah 2011 13.34 (UTC)

I cropped an image and locally uploaded it: Beureukaih:CutNyakDhienImagecropped.png WhisperToMe 9 Buleuën Duwa Blah 2011 03.15 (UTC)

Test of cropped image: Cut Nyak Dhiën WhisperToMe 9 Buleuën Duwa Blah 2011 08.30 (UTC)

Action

So what next? First, can we move the page title (from Wikipedia:Pool on Sharia Law in Acehnese Wikipedia) to something more appropriate with the dicussion, i.e. Wikipedia:Policy on awrah images in Acehnese Wikipedia (or the equivalent in Acehnese)? Second, since this only affect Acehnese Wikipedia, I will reconsider my vote as long as the other editors (other than Si Gam) agree on the aforementioned consequences (i.e. no image of most woman/their picture have to be heavily cropped, among other consequences). Third, I'm not sure about what the word "reactivate" means. Are you asking for your admin rights back? Under which account? What do you have to say about your past actions, and how "reactivating" Acehnese Wikipedia under this "condition" will make any change in your future actions towards other Wikipedias? Salam. Bennylin 25 Buleuën Duwa Blah 2011 05.21 (UTC)

I do have a quick question - On Aceh does the law distinguish between non-Muslim women and Muslim women, i.e. Muslim women would be asked to cover their heads, while western women would not? Or do the Acehnese authorities ask all women to cover their heads? WhisperToMe 25 Buleuën Duwa Blah 2011 08.51 (UTC)

Actually that question also applies to non-western non-Muslim, i.e. Indonesian from other religious belief. Recently, in a probably related incident, a group of punk kids in Aceh were "re-educated" by the authorities, including shaving their heads bald. Now, I think most of them are men, and if there was any women, I didn't hear anything about them, but since they constitute "different belief", i.e. different from locals, they were forced to follow the local custom, and even the police feel the need to maintain the specialness of the province. So I think that answers your question. But again, the Acehnese Wikipedia is meant for all editors of this language background from all around the world, not fixated in any geographical region. Bennylin 27 Buleuën Duwa Blah 2011 17.46 (UTC)

An interesting question would be discussing the Acehnese diaspora. For instance, even though, say, Iran does institute dress requirements on its population, there are sizable and influential Iranian diaspora groups -i.e. in Los Angeles, and many more liberal people within Iran have clearly communicated a preference to do away with the dress requirements, so the Persian Wikipedia is truly better off not "censoring" (and I'm sure most editors of the Persian Wikipedia agree)

Sometimes Wikipedia rules can be "centric" on the original place (i.e. even though the Japanese Wikipedia has editors from other countries, because so many editors come from Japan, the consensus is that the Wikipedia must follow Japanese laws in addition to laws of the U.S. state of Florida)

If the Acehnese diaspora is very small and/or shares the same views as the population in Aceh, then "Aceh-centric" policies are more likely to work - But if the diasporas are large and have significantly differing views, then "Aceh-centric" policies are less likely to work

Also, in regards to people not of an Acehnese background, if there are large numbers of non-ethnic Acehnese who learn the language, "Aceh-centric" policies would find less favor, while if there are few people not of an Acehnese background who learn Acehnese, then "Aceh-centric" policies would find more favor.

WhisperToMe 1 Buleuën Sa 2012 02.31 (UTC)

My answers:

@Benny:
1. Yes, we can move this page to appropriate title (Wikipedia:Policy on awrah images in Acehnese Wikipedia).
2. Other editors have agreed.
3. Yes, I am asking my administrator rights back under account Si Gam Acèh. What do you want me to say? I will not attack other Wikipedia anymore..
4. Before you talk about Punk in Aceh, please see about burqa in Europe.

@Whisper:
1. Only muslim women would be asked to cover their heads.
2. Actually the policy of a Wikipedia does not depend on the community diaspora, but it depends on Wikipedia user's view. In this matter all Acehnese Wikipedia users have the same view on awrah image policy.

Thanks

-- Si Gam 11 Buleuën Sa 2012 07.20 (UTC)

"Other editors have agreed.", "all Acehnese Wikipedia users have the same view on awrah image policy" : your a liar. I'm a Wikipedia user and don't have the same view as you, and never agreed your proposition !

--Hercule 11 Buleuën Sa 2012 09.01 (UTC)

I am a liar? I think no. All Acehnese Wikipedia users that I mean are all Acehnese speakers here. Unfortunately, you are not an Acehnese speaker. If this discussion is in Acehnese, can you give a comment? And, look again what WhisperToMe said about Japanese Wikipedia above and compare it with Acehnese Wikipedia. So, you are the real liar. -- Si Gam 15 Buleuën Sa 2012 06.32 (UTC)

I'm an Acehnese Wikipedia user, even if you don't agree. And I have never been banned from Wikimedia project... --Hercule 15 Buleuën Sa 2012 10.10 (UTC)

Ask Abi Azkia, Fadli Idris, Jiyuukaminari, Hack87 and all Acehnese speakers here. Are you an Acehnese Wikipedia user? Do you have rights to vote in every voting here? Actually you do not have rights to vote in this Wikipedia since your contributions here are only adding categories, adding interwikis, moving pages and deleting pages. So you are same like a bot. You are only technician and assistant here. If you may vote here, all bots may vote here too! And one more, we never invite you here. You come here by yourself. Your existance here is only disrupting this Wikipedia. You have ever been banned by admin Fadli Idris. Stop lying Hercule! -- Si Gam 15 Buleuën Sa 2012 11.48 (UTC)

Your contributions here are just to remove images and organise a vote where you decide who can vote. You have no legitimity to decide who is an Acehnese Wikipedia contributor. Neither to invent a hierarchy between users. I think you really don't understand what Wikipedia is, and you have nothing to do on Wikimedia projects.

Last thing : a controversal block for one week is not a ban... And your past account is globally lock. That is a ban.

Note that when you requested sysop status you considered me as a member of this community...

So please, stop lying and disrupting ! --Hercule 15 Buleuën Sa 2012 12.29 (UTC)

My contributions here are just to remove images and organise a vote where I decide who can vote? See this with your eyes and compare it with your "contributions". I never invent hierarchy between users. In this case you are not Acehnese speaker so you do not have rights to make a policy for Acehnese Wikipedia. Go learn Acehnese and then come back here.

Last thing: That's a ban in Acehnese Wikipedia. You are unwanted here.

While about I requested sysop status and I ask your voice, that is only our honor for you. User Jiyuukaminari and Fadli Idris has warned me about supporting non-Acehnese speaker becoming an administrator. I answered that that's our honor for them. So after we see who you are actually now, we think there is no honor from us for you anymore..

You are not Acehnese speaker Hercule! Shame on you.. -- Si Gam 27 Buleuën Duwa 2012 16.32 (UTC)

Si Gam Acèh is ban from any Wikimedia projet. Shame on you... --Hercule 28 Buleuën Duwa 2012 18.35 (UTC)

It doesn't matter for me. I defend my prophet from Islamophobist like you.. -- Si Gam (talk) 1 Buleuën Lhèë 2012 20.21 (UTC)

I'm not islamophobist, and I never attacked your prophet. Stop making unfounded accusation about me. --Hercule (talk) 2 Buleuën Lhèë 2012 11.16 (UTC)

For me every body who agree for displaying Prophet Muhammad pbuh. insulting images in Wikipedia means against Islam. Perhaps you like I call you colonialist for colonializing this Wikipedia? -- Si Gam (talk) 10 Buleuën Lhèë 2012 15.31 (UTC)

If only muslim women are asked to cover their head, why do you also want to apply it to non muslim persons ?

And don't forget that it's still a proposition of policy, and with 3 agree and 2 against their is no consensus for it. So this comment is a lie, and this message too. --Hercule 11 Buleuën Sa 2012 09.09 (UTC)

--Hercule 11 Buleuën Sa 2012 09.09 (UTC)

Comment: About Leandra Leal, it also shows a plunging neckline. AFAIK in many conservative Muslim countries outside of Saudi Arabia and Iran (where non-Muslims are required to cover their heads), non-Muslim women still have to otherwise dress conservatively. WhisperToMe 16 Buleuën Sa 2012 06.50 (UTC)

This is Acehnese Wikipedia not French Wikipedia. Acehnese people are muslim and muslim is prohibited to see awrah. And even Meta has agreed this policy. So stop lying! -- Si Gam 15 Buleuën Sa 2012 06.32 (UTC)

The discussion at Meta don't have to agree anything, it's just an opinion. And their opinion is that it can become a consensus if there is an "overwhelming majority". Where do you see an "overwhelming majority" ? So stop lying! --Hercule 15 Buleuën Sa 2012 10.10 (UTC)

That the discussion in Meta had to do with was: will the Wikimedia Foundation allow an action to be taken by the Wiki, if it is by consensus? That's all - On the wiki itself it's still a good idea to hash out consensus. WhisperToMe 16 Buleuën Sa 2012 06.43 (UTC)

Look with your eyes! Si Gam, Fadli Idris and Jiyuukaminari have agreed. Hercule and Bennylin are not user here. You and Bennylin do not have rights to vote here! Please lying again Hercule!. -- Si Gam 15 Buleuën Sa 2012 11.54 (UTC)

Of course, if you decide who can vote and who can't your sure to win the pools ! Lol --Hercule 15 Buleuën Sa 2012 12.29 (UTC)

Hercule, you are very different when it became a global sysop, once you can work with us and discuss with each other wise here, but since the sysop and looks very orogan by ignoring the local community at all. Don't be evil! (Google quote) --Fadli Idris 20 Buleuën Sa 2012 04.30 (UTC)

This poll is about a serious thing for Acehnese Wikipedia, making a policy. So not all user may vote here. Non-Acehnese speakers of course can not vote here. I think there is you who can decide whatever you want with your global sysop status. You block whoever you want and whoever who do not agree with you is wrong. That's you. Very arrogant after you get your global sysop status. -- Si Gam 27 Buleuën Duwa 2012 16.40 (UTC)

Please show me where I abused of my global sysop status, and where I revendicated it in this discussion ! Your a liar ! --Hercule 28 Buleuën Duwa 2012 18.35 (UTC)

Ask Fadli Idris.. Show me your next lies.. Lol -- Si Gam (talk) 1 Buleuën Lhèë 2012 20.21 (UTC)

Bekthat neu peureumeun le keu awaknya, hana suah ta debat le masalah nyoe, nyoe na peu-peu tapeugah haba lam bahsa nanggroe mantueng. Tanyoe ta teumeuleh Ajue. --Fadli Idris

Gobnyan napsu that, bek tapeuseutet marah. Lon tuwan ako ngon Fadli. Naval Scene 12 Buleuën Sa 2012 09.15 (UTC)

Comment: If Acehnese law allows non-Muslim women to not cover up their heads, and locals generally tolerate that, one could set the awrah policy around so that non-Muslim women show their hair, but below the chin/neck it's the same as with Muslim women. That means, say, Megawati's photo would have to be cropped to remove her hair, but, say, Mary Elizabeth Winstead's photo would show her hair but still not show a plunging neckline or arms. Do educational publications in the Acehnese language typically show the hair of non-Muslim women?

WhisperToMe 16 Buleuën Sa 2012 06.43 (UTC)

Hercule: If you look above, Bennylin did indicate a willingness to allow it to go through if all of the other users agree to following it and they agree to not try to enact it on other Wikipedias.

Now, it's strange thinking about how to weigh or not weigh your viewpoints. Of course you have the right to state your view on here. On the other hand Acehnese speakers may feel like they are being marginalized by users who are unable to meaningfully participate due to lack of language knowledge. On the meta thread SEB (the Navajo speaker guy) did caution me that "I don't think you should be involved so much; let them do this on their own, else they'll always feel colonized."

What I am trying to do is allow them to implement their own views on the Acehnese Wikipedia only, as long as all of the other major editors on the Acehnese Wikipedia agree, kind of like what Bennylin proposed. I personally wouldn't mind letting the Acehnese speakers do as they please here, as long as it fits the norms of the Acehnese language publishing.

BTW I just moved the page to the new title "Wikipedia:Policy on awrah images in Acehnese Wikipedia"

Thanks. Bennylin 16 Buleuën Sa 2012 09.36 (UTC)

WhisperToMe 16 Buleuën Sa 2012 06.43 (UTC)

Also, Si Gam and the others, do you know how to use image editing software? WhisperToMe 16 Buleuën Sa 2012 07.04 (UTC)

I don't think name calling (liar, lying, and so forth) is going to move this discussion forward, so please everyone refrain from doing so. Hercule, if you could please not treating Gam as a native English speaker (he's en-2), so not all his intentions are reflected on what he wrote. Imagine if you have to hold a discussion not in your native tongue, some intention will lost in translation. So I'm asking everyone here, before you drop another name calling, please ask and clarify what they mean. Gam, kalau Anda membutuhkan kata-kata yang lebih baik dan merasa lebih mampu menggunakan bahasa Indonesia untuk berdiskusi, saya bersedia menerjemahkan komentar Anda dari bahasa Indonesia ke bahasa Inggris. (I'm offering a translation service to Gam). And Gam, unless there's an explicit policy on who can vote (like id:Wikipedia:Proposal kebijakan dan pedoman#Prosedur konsensus), then you don't have the right to say who can't vote either. FYI, only Naval and me from id.wp and the whole Indonesia who are helping to mediate this discussion, because Aceh is still part of Indonesia and Wikipedia bahasa Aceh is a sister project of Wikipedia bahasa Indonesia. I believe we both wanted to see ace.wp back alive (as I noted above I'm willing to reconsider my vote, if I see some changes in the general attitude), so we're the closest thing you have as an ally outside ace.wp. Please don't treat us as your enemies. Lastly, please refrain on doing any edits until this discussion is resolved.

How can we resolve this matter without dragging it any further? We need the voice of other editors who are ace-3 and up (i.e. the community). What are your view on this? Your opinions will greatly affect the outcome of this discussion. Thank you for Fadli and Naval who left their comments in here, although if they were translated to Indonesian, at least, then other people could translate it to English or use automated translation. And please, don't be afraid to have different opinion. You are entitled to your own opinion. If you have different opinion but afraid to publicize them for security reasons, then please contact me personally (Special:Surel pengguna/Bennylin), and there are a lot of ways to make your voice heard without having to be identified. (Jika Anda penutur bahasa Aceh/penyunting Wikipedia bahasa Aceh dan memiliki pendapat yang berbeda, namun tidak ingin untuk menunjukkan jatidiri Anda untuk suatu alasan, maka Anda dapat mengirimi saya e-mail Kusuih:Surat-e_ureueng_nguy/Bennylin, dan saya akan mencoba untuk membantu supaya suara Anda dapat diutarakan dengan cara-cara yang lain) Bennylin 16 Buleuën Sa 2012 09.36 (UTC)

Comment: If it's alright, we could do is crop images of non-Muslim women below the chin line, but show their hair, since the Acehnese authorities seem to allow non-Muslim women to show their hair. How is that? WhisperToMe 19 Buleuën Sa 2012 18.12 (UTC)

Question: May I show side-by-side samples to show how cropping would be different if my idea was put in place? I would like to demonstrate my idea WhisperToMe 24 Buleuën Sa 2012 04.13 (UTC)

Angre and Please show a samples. --Fadli Idris 4 Buleuën Duwa 2012 11.40 (UTC)

1. Mary Elizabeth Winstead with hair cropped: Beureukaih:MaryElizabethWinsteadforAceh.png

2. Winstead with hair not cropped, but with below the chin cropped: Beureukaih:WinsteadAltAceh.png

WhisperToMe 12 Buleuën Duwa 2012 02.07 (UTC)

If you want more examples, please let me know and I'll upload them WhisperToMe 16 Buleuën Duwa 2012 03.03 (UTC)

If there is no further comment, is it safe for me to assume that the ACE-3 and higher speakers are okay with the example presented at "12 Buleuën Duwa 2012 02.07"? WhisperToMe 24 Buleuën Duwa 2012 09.02 (UTC)

I choose number one. -- Si Gam 27 Buleuën Duwa 2012 16.56 (UTC)

I choose number one too. -- Jiyuukaminari 28 Buleuën Duwa 2012 18.13 (UTC)

Number one please.. :) -- Tijue (talk) 2 Buleuën Lhèë 2012 17.22 (UTC)

While other ACE-3+ users take a look at the debate, I have one question: Do Acehnese language publications typically use option one or option two with images of non-Muslim women? The only Acehnese language publications I know of are the Centers for Disease Control documents, and they don't have any pictures of people WhisperToMe (talk) 5 Buleuën Lhèë 2012 17.21 (UTC)

Whisper, actually this is not about what Acehnese language publications typically use in their publications. But this is about Acehnese speakers here. There are also secular or liberal people in Acehnese people. But as long as the majority of Acehnese Wikipedia active users agree with no awrah image policy, so I think the decision is no awrah images in this Wikipedia. If someday the majority of Acehnese speakers here become secular or liberal and they do not want censor in this Wikipedia, so we will go on with that policy. I think like that.. -- Si Gam (talk) 10 Buleuën Lhèë 2012 15.15 (UTC)

I understand it is about what the Acehnese speakers, the clientele of ACE, desire in their edition. I am curious to see what precedent the literature has established. Some Wikipedias are quite revolutionary in that they are making literature from languages that previously had little published literature, and I find that quite fascinating :) - The Egyptian Arabic Wikipedia comes to mind. WhisperToMe (talk) 11 Buleuën Lhèë 2012 04.52 (UTC)

There is no newspaper, magazine, bulletin or other regular publications in Acehnese language. -- Si Gam (talk) 12 Buleuën Lhèë 2012 16.26 (UTC)

Closing

Well, I guess if there's no more comment, I move to close this discussion with the following result:

Acehnese Wikipedia will follow the proposed policy (i.e. Acehnese Wikipedia will not display images that display awrah), with the possibility in the future that the voting page will be reopened, if the user base has grown and the voting page being done in Acehnese language instead of English.
- A separate policy page, I suggest in three languages (Acehnese, Indonesian, and English, with Acehnese title obviously), with a link to this comment/voting page will be made after this voting page has been closed. Only after such page exist that this policy can be implemented.
  - The policy page should contain a guide to allow people re-uploading an awrah image after being edited. (i.e. it should have step-by-step guide so that even people who don't have the basic picture-editing skill would be able to do it.)
- All remaining pages with pictures that didn't meet this criteria will need to change their pictures, or go without picture.
- Future editors who unknowingly add an image (or images) which doesn't comply with this policy will be directed to this page (or the policy page).
- Everything else that hasn't been discussed in this page will be discussed in a separate page.
- Since there's no other known (print or online) Acehnese language publication that deal with this issue (awrah image on a publication, especially online encyclopedia) before, thus the result here could be seen as the first of is kind; There's a lot of Wikipedia policies that are good and have gone detailed scrutiny that non-Wikipedia publications adopt, but this policy should not be one of them. This guide, with no expert on the field of Islamic law and/or Acehnese publication giving their comments, should not be used as a guide for other Acehnese publication deciding what should and what should not be shown in their publication, outside of Acehnese Wikipedia.
As for the editors that wished to be reinstated as local admin: Si Gam (previously user Si Gam Acèh), while the request doesn't have anything to do directly with this voting page, the closing moderator suggest that based on previous months' interaction, the editors who wishes to become admin of Acehnese Wikipedia should go through normal voting process, and for those who were previously desysopped should explicitly stated that after their rights as user and admin has been returned they will not disrupt other projects anymore.
- The editor would need to go as Si Gam (instead of Si Gam Acèh), since the former account has been blocked on several projects.

Closing moderator, acting as steward of Meta. Bennylin (bicara) 12 Buleuën Lhèë 2012 18.31 (UTC)

Sipakat (Agree)

Hana Sipakat (Oppose)

Comments

Action

Closing

See also